Social Engineering and Rollerblades: The Hackers Breakdown You Didn’t Ask For

[00:00:00.320]
This episode of Chaos Lever
is brought to you by IntegraONE

[00:00:03.145]
and their ONE CON conference,
coming this October to Bethlehem PA.

[00:00:06.805]
More on that later, right?

[00:00:08.385]
Listen, I saw this documentary
called Back to the Future,

[00:00:11.005]
which had a lot of interesting ideas.

[00:00:14.400]
I'm not writing off any possibilities
is all I'm saying.

[00:00:19.505]
Okay, so back to the future, too.

[00:00:23.885]
A lot of inventions, a lot of interesting
ideas on what the future would look like.

[00:00:28.125]
A lot of ties, way too Too many ties.

[00:00:31.005]
I mean, we could say that about now.

[00:00:33.605]
Still too many ties.

[00:00:35.520]
If there's one major innovation
that you could have from that movie,

[00:00:42.605]
what would that innovation be?

[00:00:45.520]
Well, when I was of a certain
age, it was 100% the hoverboards.

[00:00:50.840]
Yeah, I mean, of course.
That was it.

[00:00:53.565]
Now that I'm older, wiser,
more careful, more circumspect,

[00:00:59.125]
it's still fucking hoverboards.

[00:01:07.800]
Hello, alleged human, and
welcome to the Chaos Lever podcast.

[00:01:11.065]
My name is Ned, and I'm definitely not
a robot because I can spell strawberry

[00:01:17.485]
with three R's.

[00:01:19.365]
Imagine that.

[00:01:22.285]
If that doesn't make any sense,
it's because you didn't listen to

[00:01:25.400]
our tech news of the week.

[00:01:26.425]
Go back and do that first
and then listen to this one

[00:01:29.265]
because that's what's important.

[00:01:30.960]
With me is Chris, who is also here.

[00:01:35.045]
Hi, Chris.

[00:01:37.360]
What's a strawberry?

[00:01:39.720]
It doesn't matter,
but I know it has three R's.

[00:01:42.920]
Well, that's really all we need to know.

[00:01:45.285]
Is there any point
to the rest of the show?

[00:01:47.285]
Not that I can...

[00:01:48.945]
Well, we might want to dig into
how many R's a rasberry has, because

[00:01:52.425]
that's a totally separate question.

[00:01:54.400]
There's none.
It's spelled B-R-R-R.

[00:01:55.520]
I see what you did there.
Oh, you're funny.

[00:02:01.320]
You're a funny guy.

[00:02:03.205]
You see what happens when we record
and it's not 6:00 in the morning?

[00:02:06.520]
You have all the humor
and I am barely clinging on.

[00:02:11.480]
Which is the way it should be.

[00:02:16.040]
You know, the fact that you're stomping
on my fingers as I hang on to the cliff.

[00:02:22.000]
I want you to know that I appreciate you
and everything that you do.

[00:02:26.200]
I love it when you lie to me.

[00:02:30.040]
It's another day ending in Y.

[00:02:32.760]
Really, that is the bedrock of our entire
relationship is just bald- The calendar?

[00:02:37.805]
Oh, well, that too.

[00:02:40.525]
Gregorian, naturally, because I don't
go in for that Sumerian stuff.

[00:02:46.200]
I'm going French Revolution.

[00:02:48.205]
The metric day?
I love it.

[00:02:51.245]
It was crazy enough to work,
unlike Napoleon.

[00:02:58.760]
Wow, sick 200-year-old burn.
Well done.

[00:03:02.685]
Got them.

[00:03:04.520]
Eventually.

[00:03:08.360]
Oh, should we talk about
some actual tech garbage?

[00:03:11.445]
Yeah, and this is going
to be actual tech garbage.

[00:03:15.640]
No, it's not.
Lies and slander.

[00:03:17.705]
Lies and slander.
I said Slies and lander.

[00:03:19.845]
I like that better.

[00:03:21.525]
Which could be a great indie pop band.

[00:03:24.725]
Probably already is.

[00:03:25.925]
Yeah.

[00:03:27.085]
No, what we would like to talk about today
is the movie Hackers, which I

[00:03:31.065]
watched, so you don't have to.
But you should.

[00:03:34.485]
But yeah, TLDR, you totally should.

[00:03:39.480]
Should it hold up?
No.

[00:03:41.565]
Does it hold up?

[00:03:43.760]
Mostly.

[00:03:44.885]
Mostly.

[00:03:46.840]
But anyway, to barely tie this
to reality in some meaningful fashion,

[00:03:51.885]
Wednesday of this week, the 18th,
was National Civic Hacking Day.

[00:03:56.845]
So close enough.

[00:04:00.640]
I mean, those poor Honda
civics, they never knew it hit them.

[00:04:05.600]
Out.

[00:04:07.880]
You wanted to record later
in the day, this is what you get.

[00:04:13.320]
Anyway, since it was National
Civic Hacking Day and I didn't

[00:04:16.225]
feel like doing any actual work,
I watched the movie Hackers instead.

[00:04:21.000]
Well done.

[00:04:21.725]
And yeah, like we said at the top there,
I'm not going to be too hard on it.

[00:04:26.565]
Really, it's not that bad of a movie.

[00:04:30.285]
Hackers, released in 1995
and starring, let's face it,

[00:04:34.145]
Angelina Jolie and some other people.
Hey.

[00:04:38.205]
Deal with it.
Johnny Lee Walker, right?

[00:04:40.165]
That's his name?
I think I'm close.

[00:04:42.885]
Johnny Lee Miller.

[00:04:44.525]
I was close.
Just proved my point.

[00:04:46.845]
Damn it.

[00:04:48.920]
Anyway, the movie is about a group of high
school-aged hackers who get themselves

[00:04:53.825]
into and out of all kinds of trouble,
shenanigans, there's some Tomfoolery,

[00:04:59.600]
all while listening to,
frankly, a killer soundtrack.

[00:05:03.840]
Yeah.

[00:05:04.725]
And just rocking all over New York City,
totally unencumbered by people or police

[00:05:10.485]
on Rollerblades, which believe me,
now and then is not something you can do.

[00:05:17.800]
True, but it's more likely than actually
having a car chase through New York City,

[00:05:22.185]
which seems to happen on a regular basis
if you believe action movies.

[00:05:26.680]
True, but this show is not about live free
and die So stick to roller blades.

[00:05:34.000]
Okay.

[00:05:34.465]
By that, I mean, I'm sure you wear 12 sets
of pads and still fall down.

[00:05:38.520]
Constantly.

[00:05:40.960]
I see a twig ahead of me
and I'm like, I'm going down, people.

[00:05:45.720]
Now, this is actually pretty funny because
I did see this movie when it came out,

[00:05:51.165]
and I probably have not seen it

[00:05:54.520]
since then, or close to then.

[00:06:00.000]
I rewatched it two
nights ago or last night.

[00:06:02.705]
I can't remember now.
It's all a blur.

[00:06:06.125]
Here's a fun fact.

[00:06:07.885]
As you said, the lead actor in the movie
is, in fact, Johnny Lee Miller.

[00:06:12.605]
In my memory, it was Matthew Lillard.

[00:06:15.645]
Wow.

[00:06:16.725]
Now, Matthew Lillard is very much
in the movie, but he is not the lead.

[00:06:23.680]
So shame on me, I guess.

[00:06:28.920]
I guess.
Had Scream come out yet at that point?

[00:06:31.645]
Because I feel like that's
what really cemented him.

[00:06:34.365]
I think this was before Scream.

[00:06:35.845]
1996 was Scream.

[00:06:37.385]
So this was right before his big break.

[00:06:39.520]
Right.

[00:06:40.525]
But anyway, there's other people
in the movie, too.

[00:06:42.825]
It's not really important.
This isn't a movie podcast.

[00:06:45.645]
Yet.

[00:06:46.705]
Since it is a technology podcast,
I thought I would go through

[00:06:51.345]
my thoughts upon rewatching it.

[00:06:54.005]
Now, I did not actually
write these while the movie was going on.

[00:06:58.005]
It was maybe 30 to 45 minutes after.

[00:07:00.685]
I needed a sandwich.

[00:07:02.685]
I needed to contemplate.

[00:07:04.125]
You know how it is.

[00:07:06.365]
I do.

[00:07:08.480]
I will say, at least they didn't say
the net or anything stupid like that.

[00:07:16.520]
But let's just say there are some problems
with this movie from a technical

[00:07:19.825]
perspective in terms of what could really
happen and how would it really happen

[00:07:24.040]
and how does it actually relate
to the real world, which is the one that

[00:07:27.145]
we live in that doesn't have hoverboards.

[00:07:28.505]
Thank you for reminding me earlier.

[00:07:32.205]
I want to point out that also
released in 1995 was The Net,

[00:07:37.725]
starring Sandra Bullock.

[00:07:40.160]
And out of the two movies,
this one is slightly more accurate.

[00:07:47.760]
I accept that as fact,
and I don't think we ever need to

[00:07:50.785]
speak about The Net ever again.

[00:07:54.320]
Okay, well, that's what
we're watching for movie night

[00:07:56.585]
in the week, so my apologies now.

[00:07:59.925]
Heaven help me.

[00:08:01.045]
I'm bringing Rice Krispy treats.

[00:08:03.800]
They better be chocolate frosted.

[00:08:05.665]
Is there any other kind?

[00:08:08.245]
Moving on.
Anyway.

[00:08:10.760]
So, yeah, that's what we're going to do.

[00:08:12.145]
And I should not have to say this,
considering, as we said,

[00:08:15.365]
Hackers came out in 1995.

[00:08:18.565]
Spoilers ahead.

[00:08:21.120]
It's been 30 years, people.
We're close enough.

[00:08:24.800]
Don't remind me.
I'm still upset about the calendar.

[00:08:28.000]
Yes.

[00:08:28.785]
So without further Before we get to the
real deal, here are some fun facts and

[00:08:32.665]
some real-life breakdowns of the hacking
and/or hacking world, environment,

[00:08:39.405]
what have you, milieu that sets the stage
and takes place in this movie.

[00:08:46.840]
Now, I have seven.

[00:08:48.365]
You might have more.

[00:08:49.725]
If there's time to listen to them, they're
probably not as important as mine.

[00:08:53.280]
Almost definitely.

[00:08:54.285]
So number one is one that I absolutely did
not know, and I was shocked to find out.

[00:08:59.525]
Emmanuel Michael Goldstein,
of 2600 magazine Fame, was

[00:09:03.465]
a technical consultant on this movie.

[00:09:06.845]
Who what?

[00:09:08.600]
2600 is a magazine and a website
that existed back then

[00:09:13.545]
and is still around today.

[00:09:15.925]
And is basically the go-to
reading material for the electronically

[00:09:20.665]
inclined breaker and enterer.

[00:09:24.240]
The hacking underground, as it were,
has a zine, and it's called 2600.

[00:09:29.045]
I see.
Okay.

[00:09:30.645]
And it's awesome.

[00:09:34.040]
I recommend you read it.

[00:09:35.605]
You're not going to get on another list.

[00:09:39.360]
I'm on enough already.
It doesn't matter.

[00:09:41.685]
Funnily enough, Emmanuel Goldstein
is not his real name.

[00:09:44.805]
It's an interesting nom de plume
to sound like a real name.

[00:09:50.000]
The name, I think, came from 1984.

[00:09:51.505]
I forget now.

[00:09:53.920]
But anyway, as is tradition with people of
that expertise in their craft and skills

[00:09:59.985]
in their area that go into helping
a movie become right, quote, unquote.

[00:10:05.565]
He went in with the best of intentions,
and most of what he tried to contribute

[00:10:10.425]
was immediately thrown out in
the name of '90s movie making.

[00:10:14.920]
Still, there are little touches
that show his influence.

[00:10:19.405]
The biggest one is that
Matthew Lillard's character

[00:10:21.865]
is in fact named Emmanuel Goldstein.

[00:10:25.200]
It's only mentioned once.

[00:10:26.545]
It goes by real fast, but
that's his real name in the movie.

[00:10:30.080]
Also, you'll see the magazine,
2600, all over the place.

[00:10:35.005]
The fun and cool kids are reading it.

[00:10:37.205]
They reference stuff and language
that comes out of it, et cetera.

[00:10:41.525]
And sadly, when it comes to the technical
accuracy, that's about as far as we go.

[00:10:49.880]
When this movie came out,
hackers were not pleased with it

[00:10:55.805]
because of the movie's inaccuracies.

[00:10:58.025]
And hilarious, the movie
was released, and part of its marketing

[00:11:02.485]
was a website, which was actually
a new thing at the time.

[00:11:06.645]
Yeah, really.
I don't think people remember 1995.

[00:11:11.440]
Not fondly.

[00:11:14.280]
But anyway, They created a website, and
actual hackers, the ones that know how to

[00:11:19.505]
do things, broke into said website over
and over and over again and defaced it

[00:11:25.325]
so many times that the studio
eventually just took it offline.

[00:11:30.680]
Awesome.
No notes.

[00:11:32.405]
Well done.

[00:11:33.565]
I found that very, very funny.

[00:11:37.680]
I actually tried to look up
what that might have looked like,

[00:11:41.485]
but unfortunately, the Internet Archive
did not exist at the time.

[00:11:45.400]
That is the same.
I will remind everyone, 1995.

[00:11:53.600]
Number two, reverse hacking a computer
is an absolute absurdity.

[00:12:00.280]
Now, I'm not going to highlight
every single technical thing that goes

[00:12:03.425]
wrong with this movie, and I'm also not
going to go by scene by scene.

[00:12:07.040]
But I think this one sets the stage
for what we can expect in

[00:12:09.425]
terms of technical acumen.

[00:12:12.280]
Sure.

[00:12:12.705]
There is a scene, I want to say 15, 20
minutes into the movie, Johnny Lee Miller

[00:12:17.545]
is hacking a TV station because
he wants to watch The Outer Limits.

[00:12:21.800]
Can't argue with that.

[00:12:23.485]
It's before the era of Netflix
or even DVDs, really.

[00:12:27.680]
He somehow gets into a hacker war
with Angelina Jolie's character

[00:12:32.600]
because she's there for some reason.

[00:12:35.520]
Just hanging out.

[00:12:36.125]
Not actually doing anything,
but she's just there like you do.

[00:12:41.680]
Anyway, what happens then is a bunch
of graphical messages thrown up on

[00:12:45.625]
each other's respective screens that
they're typing on, implying that there's

[00:12:49.465]
some type of direct communication from
Jolie's computer to Miller's computer.

[00:12:54.640]
Remember, they're connected
to a third-party network.

[00:12:57.005]
This is absolutely not how it works.

[00:13:00.280]
A connection into a system
like that using a modem directly

[00:13:04.840]
connects from one computer to another.

[00:13:06.325]
And that's as far as it goes,
and that's the direction

[00:13:08.625]
that the traffic passes through.

[00:13:12.200]
You cannot just climb back up the pipe.

[00:13:14.565]
You just can't.

[00:13:17.885]
The protocols simply don't allow it.

[00:13:20.360]
I don't have a more technical
breakdown as to why.

[00:13:22.425]
It's just you just can't.

[00:13:25.680]
Just like the same reason you can't
have cupcakes before bed, you just can't.

[00:13:30.145]
Actually, that might not
have been the best metaphor.

[00:13:35.445]
I know this one in particular was done for

[00:13:40.325]
narrative purposes, but everything about

[00:13:42.585]
the scene from a technical perspective
is completely wrong.

[00:13:46.560]
In the real world, when you do
a login like this, first

[00:13:48.905]
of all, there's no graphics.

[00:13:51.285]
No.
It is a command line access only.

[00:13:54.285]
You don't fly around, and this goes for
the rest of the movie, you just don't

[00:13:58.465]
fly around visual mockups of what
the computer system looks like.

[00:14:02.525]
You can't even do that now.

[00:14:03.885]
You don't need a headset.

[00:14:05.485]
None of this, everything
about this is dumb.

[00:14:08.800]
This is almost as dumb as
it was in Jurassic Park.

[00:14:12.245]
If you remember that scene where Lex
was navigating around the park

[00:14:16.765]
after she famously said, This is Unix.
I know this.

[00:14:23.480]
It's wild that a nine-year-old would
know Unix because where the fuck would

[00:14:28.445]
she encounter Unix as a nine-year-old?

[00:14:34.480]
Unix School?

[00:14:38.320]
Pretty sure that's the thing.

[00:14:40.045]
No, in Jurassic Park, what Lex
was actually doing was navigating

[00:14:44.905]
the file system using a piece of software
that came as a demo on an SGI system

[00:14:51.725]
that showed off the system's
graphical capabilities at the time.

[00:14:56.200]
It wasn't even supposed
to be a real utility.

[00:15:00.200]
It was just, look at fancy
things flying around.

[00:15:04.120]
Which I like.
I like seeing fancy things.

[00:15:06.885]
I mean, the only reason I even bring this
up is to shorthand all of the other,

[00:15:11.600]
quote, unquote,
hacks that are seen on screen in the movie

[00:15:13.985]
Hackers, or basically
any other movie that features technology,

[00:15:19.685]
whenever someone's typing furiously
on a screen and you're wondering

[00:15:23.025]
to yourself, how does whatever it
is that they're doing actually work?

[00:15:28.365]
In 99.

[00:15:29.505]
9% of including this one,
that's not how it works.

[00:15:34.320]
No.

[00:15:35.445]
Hitting the enter key to start a program
is almost never what you actually do.

[00:15:41.040]
Surely you're not forgetting about
hitting F5 over and over and over again

[00:15:44.145]
to increase the intensity of the hack.

[00:15:48.640]
God, I love it.
That's a bonus one.

[00:15:50.025]
I forgot to include that.

[00:15:51.645]
Yeah.

[00:15:52.765]
So moving on, though, because I don't
want to just slam this thing

[00:15:56.245]
all the time because as fun
as that is, it's not as fun.

[00:16:00.285]
I do want to take a moment to highlight
what is actually possible, because some

[00:16:05.145]
of the stuff in this movie is, was, and
will continue to be completely possible.

[00:16:12.440]
Now, in the scene that I just mentioned,
before the little hacker fight happened,

[00:16:17.285]
Johnny Lee Miller's character had to
get access to the TV station via a modem.

[00:16:22.565]
Remember 1995?

[00:16:25.000]
Yeah.

[00:16:25.685]
He got the number for the modem that
he called into by calling the front desk

[00:16:32.245]
and razzle dazzling the front desk
security guy with Technobabble.

[00:16:37.800]
Now, this is called social engineering,
and it is by far the most successful

[00:16:42.985]
hacking that exists on the Earth.

[00:16:46.080]
Again, then, now, and in the future.

[00:16:51.040]
Actually, the movie has a ton of this.

[00:16:54.205]
There are a lot of examples of them doing
what would be called social engineering.

[00:16:58.965]
Some other examples include what is called
shoulder surfing, where you flat out just

[00:17:02.965]
watch somebody enter a password or a pin.

[00:17:06.205]
This one is unfortunately common
around ATMs, so watch yourself.

[00:17:10.165]
But also, pretending to be employees
or contractors and just flat out

[00:17:15.360]
walking into a restricted building
or an area of a building.

[00:17:20.520]
Wear some overalls and pretend
like you're supposed to be there.

[00:17:23.120]
If you have a ladder or a checklist,
you can walk straight into

[00:17:28.985]
Fort Knox, I swear to God.
Clipboards, man.

[00:17:32.280]
It's the golden ticket.

[00:17:34.525]
And now for a brief message
from our sponsor, Integro1.

[00:17:37.560]
Our technology landscape is constantly
evolving, and it's getting difficult

[00:17:42.345]
to separate the hype from the reality.

[00:17:44.405]
Is AI really the next big thing?

[00:17:46.885]
Will WebAs anomaly change
application deployments forever?

[00:17:50.080]
Is the era of public cloud over?

[00:17:52.485]
Or is it just getting started?

[00:17:53.965]
I find the best way to discover the truth
is by talking to other practitioners and

[00:17:59.105]
hearing from folks who have their finger
on the pulse of enterprise IT.

[00:18:02.645]
That is exactly what you'll find if you'll
be able to connect with like-minded

[00:18:07.225]
professionals, get one-on-one
demos from technology experts,

[00:18:11.245]
and attend over 60 interactive sessions.

[00:18:14.205]
You might even get a keynote from me, Ned
Belivance, on the Reality of AI in 2024.

[00:18:19.800]
It's two days of learning, connecting,
and growing with fellow IT professionals.

[00:18:24.560]
If that sounds good to you, join me
at the Wind Creek Casino on October first

[00:18:28.705]
and second for one DICON 2024.
Now back to the show.

[00:18:33.120]
Kevin Mitnik, probably the only hacker
anyone outside of IT has ever heard of,

[00:18:38.165]
famously talked about how most
of his success came more from

[00:18:41.945]
social engineering than anything else.

[00:18:44.600]
Sure.

[00:18:45.165]
I am not saying that to disparage
his technical acumen at all.

[00:18:49.600]
He did have the technical chops.

[00:18:51.560]
He did.

[00:18:52.960]
But if you look up the way that
he talks about it, or if you read his,

[00:18:57.840]
it could have used an editor book.
True.

[00:19:02.840]
Everything he does centers around and is
essential to it is social engineering.

[00:19:09.525]
There's one quote that's worth
sharing in full, because I think it

[00:19:14.120]
makes the point better than I could.

[00:19:15.485]
Now, this was after his
whole thing had been over.

[00:19:18.345]
He was out of jail.
He was now becoming a security apostle

[00:19:24.320]
in the wilderness, as it were.

[00:19:27.005]
He said, A company can spend hundreds
of thousands of dollars on firewalls,

[00:19:33.525]
intrusion detection systems, encryption,
and other security technologies.

[00:19:38.320]
But if an attacker can call
one trusted person within that company

[00:19:43.405]
and that person complies and the attacker
gets in, then all of the money spent

[00:19:49.545]
on that technology is essentially wasted.

[00:19:54.160]
Again, that was true then,
that is true now.

[00:19:59.000]
It's funny because this actually reminds
me of an XKCD comic where these bad guys

[00:20:05.065]
have a guy tied to a chair, and they
say they're going to use a multimillion

[00:20:08.960]
dollar computer to crack his password.

[00:20:10.485]
The other guy says, What if I just
hit him on the knee with this hammer?

[00:20:16.280]
Seems effective.

[00:20:18.400]
A little more brutal social engineering,
but I think you get the idea.

[00:20:23.320]
Indeed.

[00:20:25.280]
Number four, and this is going
to be a bummer for a lot of people

[00:20:27.545]
who think this idea is fun, the idea of
skimming money off of every transaction

[00:20:32.965]
and stealing it for yourself is dumb.

[00:20:36.960]
It's dumb here
when the bad guys are doing it.

[00:20:40.600]
It's dumb in office space
where the good guys, Is it?

[00:20:47.200]
Morally ambiguous.

[00:20:48.720]
There we go.

[00:20:49.685]
Tldr, it's dumb
every time people talk about it.

[00:20:53.920]
Even in Superman 3.
Yeah.

[00:20:56.080]
Now, it does, in its defense,
have a cool name.

[00:20:59.600]
It's It's referred to as salami slicing.

[00:21:03.480]
It is.
You can look it up.

[00:21:05.405]
You actually can look it up.

[00:21:06.920]
I believe you.
In fact, there's a link in the show notes.

[00:21:08.745]
It talks all about it.

[00:21:11.240]
In any event, in case people aren't
familiar, the idea is transactions

[00:21:17.345]
on this scale, they don't divide evenly.

[00:21:19.560]
You end up with fractions of a cent.

[00:21:22.400]
You round them down in your favor,
leaves you with a teeny tiny bit, and

[00:21:27.225]
you put that money in a separate account.

[00:21:29.600]
Then And that just
becomes your money, apparently.

[00:21:33.725]
Apparently.

[00:21:35.080]
Now, the myth of doing this in business
actually goes back way further

[00:21:39.425]
than I thought, at least as far as 1978,

[00:21:44.745]
which is wild if you think about it.

[00:21:47.080]
Yeah.

[00:21:48.245]
I didn't know we had math in 1978.

[00:21:52.880]
Now, the idea in practice
is even older than that.

[00:21:57.485]
In the old, old, old, old days, when we
used actual gold and silver coins, people

[00:22:04.385]
would what's called clip the coins.

[00:22:07.725]
What you would do is you get a coin
in a transaction and you get a real sharp

[00:22:11.925]
knife or some way to slice it, and
you take off the tiniest possible amount

[00:22:16.445]
of that coin, like 0.

[00:22:18.585]
5 %, just tiniest little nibble.

[00:22:23.005]
Small enough that whoever
you give that coin to next doesn't

[00:22:26.105]
notice that there's a piece missing.

[00:22:29.120]
You do that enough times,
now you have a pile of gold that you

[00:22:33.345]
can get processed at the gold store?

[00:22:38.360]
I don't know.
Smith?

[00:22:39.885]
Yeah.

[00:22:42.080]
Is that why coins are milled
around the edge so you can see

[00:22:47.865]
if someone has cut it.

[00:22:49.285]
That is exactly why coins are milled.

[00:22:53.200]
Back in the day, in the 1700s,
that was not a thing that was possible.

[00:22:57.725]
Therefore, always flat edges.

[00:23:02.280]
Now, fast forward to now with our digital
currency, and this is even less feasible.

[00:23:08.840]
There are in accounting, frankly
speaking, too many checks and balances.

[00:23:14.485]
And eventually, and probably extremely
soonely, someone in accounting

[00:23:19.965]
will notice that things don't add up.

[00:23:22.360]
And I don't know how many accountants
you know, but they get real upset

[00:23:25.645]
if things don't add up.

[00:23:27.205]
Oh, yes.

[00:23:30.000]
That's actually one of
the things in office space

[00:23:32.145]
I think that is super realistic.

[00:23:33.245]
If you remember, they do
the scam, and it is the next day

[00:23:37.765]
that accounting knows that there's,
quote, a lot of money missing.

[00:23:42.320]
Here's the thing.

[00:23:43.805]
If there were 12 cents missing,
the same shit would have happened.

[00:23:50.160]
True.
Yeah.

[00:23:51.645]
That is what accounting is there for.

[00:23:53.840]
Exactly.

[00:23:54.925]
To account for things.

[00:23:56.245]
And also, remember that other part
where the money had to go

[00:24:00.145]
into some other account?

[00:24:03.205]
Well, believe you me, the banks know where
those accounts are and who opened them.

[00:24:10.840]
They're required to.

[00:24:12.485]
Yeah.

[00:24:14.200]
They take that stuff real serious.

[00:24:16.805]
Financial fraud, bad.

[00:24:20.680]
Unless you do it at a
significant enough scale.

[00:24:24.205]
True.

[00:24:25.720]
Then you might be okay.

[00:24:28.965]
Next up.

[00:24:30.165]
One of the claims in the movie
that annoyed me and surprised me

[00:24:34.360]
all at the same time.

[00:24:36.245]
The movie claims that the
most commonly used passwords

[00:24:39.625]
were love, secret, sex, and God.

[00:24:45.360]
Even in 1995, this list
was absurd, although not as absurd

[00:24:51.080]
as I would have thought.

[00:24:52.025]
And this little tidbit right here,
several hours of research

[00:24:56.045]
because I have to remind you, 1995.

[00:25:00.285]
Yeah.

[00:25:02.640]
Now, as we all know, the modern list
of popular embarrassing passwords

[00:25:07.545]
that people still use for some God
forsaken reason include such gems

[00:25:11.385]
as password and 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, six.

[00:25:16.520]
Ostensibly because it's one
more than 1, 2, 3, 4, 5.

[00:25:19.925]
It's when we bumped up
the character minimum to six.

[00:25:24.480]
But according to an article published
in Business Week back in 1997,

[00:25:28.545]
the most commonly used passwords were,
and these are not in any particular order,

[00:25:35.000]
the user's first name, last name,
or child's name, the word secret,

[00:25:40.405]
so they got one,
stress-related words such as deadline or

[00:25:43.985]
work, sports teams or sports terms,

[00:25:51.760]
the word payday, the word bonkers.

[00:25:56.600]
That's random.

[00:25:58.565]
I meant to look into that,
and I decided to move along.

[00:26:02.685]
Then we rounded out the list with
the current season, the user's ethnic

[00:26:06.725]
group, just flat out repeated characters
like a capital A 10 times,

[00:26:12.080]
or obsinities and sexual terms.

[00:26:15.645]
Being that this was business
week, they did not go into detail.

[00:26:20.225]
However, I think it was worse
than just the word sex.

[00:26:23.525]
When I was working as a desktop admin
and help desk, there was a gentleman,

[00:26:31.005]
whose name I won't repeat,
but he was universally

[00:26:33.665]
known as an office creep by the ladies
and just generally despised by everyone.

[00:26:40.485]
And I had to set up a new laptop for him.

[00:26:43.525]
And so I asked him what his
current password was.

[00:26:46.560]
And it was superior.

[00:26:50.005]
And I remember that to this day because
I was like, of course it fucking is.

[00:26:54.120]
What a douchebag you truly are.

[00:26:58.080]
That's magical.

[00:27:00.005]
It's nit, though.

[00:27:01.960]
You're welcome.

[00:27:03.245]
Now, even in 1997, Business Week
knew that this shit was a bad idea.

[00:27:08.885]
And I quote, The main point
to be made here is that users should

[00:27:13.545]
avoid to use these types of passwords.

[00:27:17.640]
True then?

[00:27:18.885]
True now?
Now.

[00:27:20.640]
Now, these days, we did get away
from relying exclusively on passwords,

[00:27:25.840]
or at least have made passwords better.

[00:27:28.725]
Think password managers, think MFA,
think passwordless, et cetera, et cetera.

[00:27:35.800]
But seriously, even back
then, there was such a thing

[00:27:39.985]
as password complexity requirements.

[00:27:42.880]
The idea that something like the Gibson,
A, would be externally facing,

[00:27:48.645]
and B, would allow itself
to have an administrator with

[00:27:51.865]
the password that is three letters long
called God defies belief.

[00:27:57.880]
Bearing in mind that Penn and Teller
were elite hackers in the movie, and

[00:28:04.120]
you would think that elite hackers would
know not to set a three-letter password.

[00:28:09.280]
Precisely this.

[00:28:12.000]
I guess I could put in 5A the fact
that they were accessing the Gibson

[00:28:16.385]
on the open network is absurd.

[00:28:19.640]
But real computers like that
are a lot more like Mission Impossible.

[00:28:24.285]
That first movie,
the only one that's good.

[00:28:29.000]
Shots fired.
I'm fighting words.

[00:28:31.160]
I've been triggered.

[00:28:34.880]
Okay, let's get back to a couple
of things that the hackery people

[00:28:38.705]
do in this movie that are correct.

[00:28:41.485]
Okay.

[00:28:43.040]
There's a scene where the hackers
sit in their somehow impossibly clean and

[00:28:47.545]
smoke-free club with no adults anywhere.

[00:28:51.040]
They're supposed to be
in high school, right?

[00:28:52.465]
Yeah.

[00:28:53.725]
And what they do is talk about computer
books and just plop them on the table.

[00:28:59.965]
And every single one is a real book
that anyone in computer science

[00:29:05.625]
at the time would recognize.

[00:29:08.680]
If you work, even you didn't
have to be a hacker

[00:29:11.445]
to have the Unix Bible, for example.

[00:29:13.305]
You just needed that shit to work.

[00:29:18.240]
But again, it was cool that they just
threw those nods in to say,

[00:29:22.585]
Hey, yeah, we did pay attention.
We know what books are.

[00:29:28.120]
They're not all that interesting, though.

[00:29:29.525]
Nobody he's going to go, when
you drop the devil book on your table.

[00:29:35.045]
That part was a little excessive.

[00:29:37.080]
But anyway, it was a fun
nod to the real world.

[00:29:40.565]
Something else, though.

[00:29:42.885]
A lot of the phone stuff that is done
as little throwaway gags and also to show

[00:29:48.360]
the character called Freaks Bonafides.

[00:29:51.965]
Completely accurate to the time
and would work.

[00:29:56.600]
They didn't even suss it
up in a way to disguise it.

[00:30:01.360]
That shit would have
worked just on the jump.

[00:30:04.840]
Stuff like recording the sound
of a coin falling into the canister

[00:30:09.045]
and playing it into the mouthpiece
of a phone for certain pay phones,

[00:30:14.805]
you would now have a free phone call.

[00:30:17.960]
It's wild.

[00:30:19.920]
Also, at the time, we had a combination
of push-button dialing

[00:30:24.840]
and pulse-tone dialing,
which is what a rotary phone does.

[00:30:29.680]
So what you could do is take the phone
off the hook, hit the little hanging-up-y

[00:30:33.865]
thing at the right rate, at the right
pace, and it would simulate a pulse dial.

[00:30:38.840]
And again, on the right pay
phone, you would be able

[00:30:41.905]
to call out any number you want.

[00:30:44.405]
Wow.

[00:30:45.760]
Now, there's more to it than this.

[00:30:47.045]
There's a lot of things you can read
old stories of people who,

[00:30:50.205]
with perfect pitch, could
whistle into the phone and simulate

[00:30:53.425]
the sounds of control characters.

[00:30:57.320]
Apparently, the whistle that came with box
of Captain Crunch made the exact correct

[00:31:02.925]
pitch that you could get the system
to acknowledge and you could make

[00:31:08.925]
long distance phone calls for free.
Yeah.

[00:31:12.480]
Now, they throw a lot of other
language, and they talk about things

[00:31:15.025]
like red boxes and whatnot.

[00:31:16.145]
They don't delve into it deeply,
but in terms of technology, it's some of

[00:31:20.265]
the most accurate stuff that they've got,
which I thought was interesting.

[00:31:23.725]
Yeah.

[00:31:25.400]
Why did this work?

[00:31:27.840]
This worked because the phone system
was created in the analog world,

[00:31:32.360]
and it was just not secure
because the thinking went, who would

[00:31:37.785]
be dishonest with the phone company?

[00:31:40.320]
Yeah.

[00:31:41.120]
In some cases,
there was no good workaround.

[00:31:46.480]
So even if the phone company
was aware of what people were doing,

[00:31:51.285]
they couldn't just change
the signal tone for the control line.

[00:31:54.920]
That was not a thing they could do.

[00:31:56.225]
So it was like, I guess
we just deal with it.

[00:31:58.040]
Right.

[00:31:58.885]
Well, one of the things they tried do
is they put out a new line of pay phones

[00:32:02.185]
where the mouthpiece was not
activated until the coin physically

[00:32:05.625]
fell into the device.

[00:32:08.165]
This, of course, caused
the devices to be more expensive.

[00:32:13.080]
Problematic.

[00:32:14.600]
Indeed.

[00:32:15.445]
Doing these kinds of phone manipulations
was called freaking.

[00:32:20.920]
Unfortunately, it's gone more
or less the way of pay phones, just

[00:32:25.625]
to say it's not really a thing anymore.

[00:32:29.445]
Right.
One throwaway line when the characters

[00:32:36.585]
were all talking about

[00:32:37.725]
Angelina Jolie's character's laptop,
that was funny to me, particularly

[00:32:43.185]
considering the movie came out in 1995.

[00:32:46.165]
And I quote, Risk is going
to change everything, immediately

[00:32:51.025]
followed by, Risk is good.

[00:32:56.360]
I love this.

[00:32:57.805]
And that's it.

[00:32:58.985]
They're done talking processors.

[00:33:01.320]
But in 1995, Intel absolutely
ruled the world of computing.

[00:33:06.600]
X86-based CPUs were literally
the non-Apple consumer's only option.

[00:33:11.965]
If you remember Power PCs from 1995,
I'm sorry.

[00:33:17.925]
I had one.

[00:33:21.640]
When they said that Risc was going
to change everything, I was like,

[00:33:25.625]
I have a Risc processor in my desktop.

[00:33:29.920]
It was awful because it was OS9.

[00:33:32.880]
Right.

[00:33:33.885]
Yeah.

[00:33:34.205]
There was a fall before
the rise, as it were.

[00:33:38.240]
Indeed.

[00:33:39.045]
But anyway, 1995.
This was the Pentium Pro days.

[00:33:43.440]
Cpus running at a blazing 200 megahertz.

[00:33:47.120]
Count them, sir.

[00:33:50.040]
Now, other things that were
funny, AMD did exist.

[00:33:55.240]
Amd released what they called the K5
at the time, and it was their very first

[00:33:59.805]
competing against Intel
using AMD designs and fabrication.

[00:34:06.400]
It didn't go great.

[00:34:08.680]
It didn't go bad.

[00:34:10.520]
It didn't bankrupt the company.

[00:34:11.545]
Obviously, they stuck around.

[00:34:13.525]
Amd is basically the bee's
knees these days.

[00:34:16.765]
Say that four times fast.

[00:34:19.080]
No, thank you.

[00:34:19.805]
Not five.
You'll get a headache.

[00:34:22.560]
But yeah, in 1995, Intel was top
of the heap and everybody knew it.

[00:34:27.800]
But something else, this was not
in the movie, but this was in 1995,

[00:34:32.240]
the Cyrix processor.

[00:34:35.040]
Who remembers this besides me?

[00:34:38.565]
I do, and I don't know why.

[00:34:42.640]
Cyrix was a company that spun off of Texas
Instruments, who you might have heard

[00:34:47.960]
of because if you're a person
of a certain age, they definitely

[00:34:50.625]
made your calculator in high school.

[00:34:52.805]
They started their company's life
making math coprocessors,

[00:34:59.325]
which was a thing at at the time.

[00:35:01.840]
And Cyrix had a lot of success
with this, and they decided to take

[00:35:05.945]
a shot at Intel as well.

[00:35:07.720]
At first, they actually were doing okay.

[00:35:11.240]
They released a 486 chip that was not
as fast as its Intel counterpart,

[00:35:16.405]
but it was significantly cheaper,
like two-thirds less expensive.

[00:35:22.680]
Wow.

[00:35:23.065]
And for one shining moment,
we all thought that Cyrix was going

[00:35:27.625]
to happen, even more than AMD.

[00:35:30.185]
If if I'm remembering correctly,
which I'm probably not.

[00:35:33.885]
Now, considering that you've definitely
never heard of Cyrix, if you're not

[00:35:38.185]
me or Ned, you probably already
know that Cyrix didn't, in fact, happen.

[00:35:44.765]
It was a brief moment.

[00:35:47.400]
Pentium came out, or Pentium Pro
came out, I should say,

[00:35:49.665]
and that was the end of that.

[00:35:51.325]
Intel took over for a
solid 12 to 15 years.

[00:35:56.400]
But link in the show notes
if you want to check out

[00:35:59.225]
some amazing computer ads from the 1990s.

[00:36:03.320]
I don't know about the computers,
but they definitely don't

[00:36:05.265]
make the ads like they used to.

[00:36:09.160]
But anyway, fast forward to now,
and risk chips are absolutely everywhere,

[00:36:14.805]
including, once again, in Macs.

[00:36:17.925]
Except they're good now.

[00:36:19.925]
Yeah, much better.

[00:36:22.285]
Risk chips are used to drive your phone.

[00:36:25.445]
And as we recently discussed, even Windows
laptops are starting to ship with them.

[00:36:30.845]
And apparently, they do good.

[00:36:33.405]
They do.

[00:36:34.565]
Still very happy.

[00:36:35.765]
This is very funny to me that Risc
is going to change everything

[00:36:39.845]
with something that the movie
was completely right about.

[00:36:43.605]
Just, you know.

[00:36:46.360]
They're off by 30 odd years.

[00:36:50.080]
Indeed.

[00:36:52.080]
That might be the least fun fact of all.

[00:36:57.200]
That 1995 was like- You don't
need I keep mentioning it.

[00:37:00.345]
30 years ago.

[00:37:02.605]
Why?

[00:37:05.280]
Why do you hate me so?

[00:37:06.805]
I really don't.

[00:37:08.285]
I just, to quote the kids
these days, I just can't.

[00:37:12.885]
I just can't with this.

[00:37:16.680]
I think that I need to go have a lie
down and pretend that Jurassic Park

[00:37:21.965]
is up for Oscars this year.

[00:37:26.920]
Hey, thanks for listening or something.

[00:37:28.405]
I guess you found it worthwhile enough
if made it all the way to the end.

[00:37:31.305]
So congratulations to you, friend.
You accomplished something today.

[00:37:33.885]
Now you can go sit on the couch, watch
Johnny Lee Miller in Train Spotting.

[00:37:37.840]
He's excellent.

[00:37:39.600]
Don't inject any heroin into your body.

[00:37:42.405]
And enjoy it.
Choose life.

[00:37:44.160]
Choose life.
Choose life.

[00:37:45.485]
You can find more about the show
by visiting our LinkedIn page.

[00:37:48.345]
Just search Chaos Lever
or go to our website, chaoslever.

[00:37:51.465]
Com, where you'll find show notes,
blog posts, and general Tom Foulery.

[00:37:55.005]
We'll be back next week
to see what fresh hell is upon us.

[00:37:58.145]
Ta-ta for now.

[00:38:05.880]
Now I'm creating a new
shared universe where Train Spotting

[00:38:09.625]
is the sequel to Hackers.